PENCE WINS ON STYLE; KAINE WINS ON SUBSTANCE

….Virginia Senator & VP candidate, Tim Kaine

 

Governor Pence denies that Trump said that Saudi Arabia, South Korea & Japan should have nuclear weapons.

 

2016 Vice President Debate Summary

 

Senator Tim Kaine was more nervous and he was the one that started with the interruptions, while Mike pence was much calmer and professional.  But both candidates were very well prepared.  The Trump organization was not real happy because Pence avoided many chances to defend his running mate, and the final result for the Republicans is that it made them probably wish the GOP candidate role’s were switched.  It ended up certainly looking good for Pence in the 2020 or 2024 election.

 

As to clarity, when it comes to honesty, Pence continually denied that Trump had said some of the things that Kaine declared, and he even incorrectly denied that Trump had said some things that he did actually say.

 

This is why it seems understood that Pence won on style and being a relaxed debater, while Kaine won on substance and honesty.

 

Here are just some of the details:

 

Pence claimed that Clinton’s would raise taxes by $1.46 Trillion, and he appeared to just leave his statement at that point.  The number is correct, but the reality is that the tax hike “falls almost exclusively on the most highly paid American individuals”.  The comments didn’t state that Clinton’s plan would also add 3.2 to 10.4 million jobs, depending on what programs would make it through Congress.

 

Pence had no comment when Kaine said the following: “Donald Trump during his campaign has called Mexicans rapists and criminals. He’s called women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting. I don’t like saying that in front of my wife and my mother. He attacked an Indiana-born federal judge and said he was unqualified to hear a federal lawsuit because his parents were Mexican. He went after John McCain, a POW, and said he wasn’t a hero because he’d been captured. He said African-Americans are living in hell. And he perpetrated this outrageous and bigoted lie that President Obama is not a U.S. citizen. … And we don’t think that women should be punished, as Donald Trump said they should, for making the decision to have an abortion.”

Kaine was correct that Trump had said all of this.

 

During the debate, Pence correctly did then note that Kaine was leaving out a part where Trump had said: “And some, I assume, are good people,” referring to the Mexicans coming to America.

Pence said that: “The state of Indiana has balanced budget … we’ve made record investments in education and infrastructure.”  Pence is correct on these raw numbers regarding education spending, but he is incorrect when the figures are adjusted for inflation.

 

Pence said: “Clinton and Kaine have a plan for open borders.”  Pence exaggerates Clinton’s stance on border security and immigration enforcement.  Clinton has said she would expand Obama’s executive actions on immigration, and has advocated comprehensive immigration reform in her first 100 days in office including a pathway to citizenship. But she also has supported enhanced border security

 

Kaine: “You’ve got to be tough on Russia. Let’s start by not praising Vladimir Putin as a great leader. Donald Trump and Mike Pence have said he’s a great leader.”

Pence: “No, we haven’t.”

 

Actually they did: Pence told CNN just a few weeks ago: “I think it’s inarguable that Vladimir Putin has been a stronger leader in his country than Barack Obama has been.” Pence made these remarks just after Trump asserted that Putin has “been a leader far more than our president has been a leader.”

 

Kaine said: “When Donald Trump spoke in Phoenix, he looked the audience in the eye and said … quote, ‘They will all be gone. They will all be gone.’”  Referring to Trump deporting all the illegal Hispanics.  Trump did say that all “criminal illegal immigrants are going to be gone. It will be over.”

 

Pence: “More than half of the private meetings when Clinton was secretary of state were given to major donors of the Clinton Foundation.”  Pence misconstrued an Associated Press (AP) report here, similar to the way Donald Trump did earlier in the campaign.

 

1.     The AP found that “more than half” of 154, had donated to the Clinton Foundation or “pledged commitments to its international programs.” The 85 donors collectively contributed as much as $156 million, the AP reported.  But there was no favor or advantage granted or expected in return for the donations.  The Clinton Foundation has nothing to do with the US State department.

 

Kaine said: We had “15 million new jobs?”  Counting from January 2009, there have been nearly 11 million private-sector jobs created in the United States, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

 

So how does Kaine come up with 15 million? He’s counting from the low point for jobs in Obama’s presidency — February 2010. When you start the clock from then, the tally is 15 million private-sector jobs and 14.8 million overall jobs.

 

Kaine: “Independent analysts say the Clinton plan would grow the economy by 10.5 million jobs. The Trump plan would cost 3.5 million jobs.”  Moody’s Analytics, did issue a report saying that if Trump’s economic plans were fully implemented, 3.5 million jobs would disappear, incomes would stagnate, debt would explode, and stock prices would plummet. This compares to an anticipated increase of 6 million jobs under current Obama administration policies.

 

Pence: “A reference to the Iranian deal, the Iranian deal that Hillary Clinton initiated, $150 billion to the radical mullahs in Iran.”

 

Pence makes it sound like this is US taxpayer money, and he uses a too-high estimate. Because of international sanctions over its nuclear program, Iran had billions of dollars in assets that were frozen in foreign banks around the globe, not just the US. With sanctions lifted, in theory those funds would be unlocked.  But only after showing that they had fulfilled the part of the agreement.

 

Kaine: “That’s why Donald Trump’s claim that NATO is obsolete and that we need to get rid of NATO is so dangerous.”

 

Trump did say that NATO was obsolete, but when asked specifically by The Washington Post in March if he wanted to pull out of NATO, he said: “I don’t want to pull out. NATO was set up at a different time. NATO was set up when we were a richer country. We’re not a rich country anymore. … I think NATO as a concept is good, but it is not as good as it was when it first evolved.” He has argued that “distribution of costs” has to be changed, but as we have noted, Trump frequently overstates the burden on the United States.  Most nations are paying more than their fair-share of the NATO costs.

 

Kaine: “We will never, ever engage in a risky scheme to privatize Social Security. Donald Trump wrote a book and he said Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and privatization would be good for all of us.”

 

Kaine is referring to Trump’s 2000 book, “The America We Deserve,” where he made such a comparison about Social Security and said he wanted to privatize the program: “The workers of America have been forced to invest a sixth of our wages into a huge Ponzi scheme. The pyramids are made of papier-mache.”  Trump added in the book: “Privatization would be good for all of us. As it stands today, 13.6% of women on Social Security live in poverty.”

 

But that book was published 16 years ago and many changes have occurred to Social Security. On the campaign trail, Trump has said he wants to “keep Social Security intact … I’m not going to cut it.”  So, another confused comment from Donald Trump.

Pence: “We have the smallest Navy since 1916.”

.

This is a zombie claim that just won’t go away. It was awarded Three Pinocchio’s, and fact checkers repeatedly debunked this from Romney in the 2012 presidential elections .

 

Indeed, the number of ships (272) as of Oct. 4, 2016 is the lowest count since 1916 (245 ships). But a lot has changed in 100 years, including the need and capacity of ships. After all, it’s a now a matter of modern nuclear-powered fleet carriers, versus gunboats and small warships of 100 years ago. The push for ships under the Reagan era, to build the Navy up to 600-ship levels no longer exists, and ships from that era are now retiring.

 

Obama substituted a different system, but it was on the recommendation of then-Defense Secretary Robert Gates, a Republican.

 

Kaine: “Donald Trump said wages are too high. And both Donald Trump and Mike Pence think we ought to eliminate the federal minimum wage. Mike Pence, when he was in Congress, voted against raising the minimum wage above $5.15 in 2007.” 

 

Trump has walked back the particular claim that Kaine cites, that “wages are too high.” But of course, Trump has flip-flopped on the minimum wage at least five times since August 2015 and has consistently contradicted his own statements, making it hard to track exactly where he stands on the issue at any given time. Trump’s stance on this matter, as of August 2016, was that he supports “raising it to $10 at the federal level, but believes states should set the minimum wage as appropriate for their state.”

 

Trump later was asked whether he would increase the minimum wage. He said would not raise it, because then it would be “too high”……?  Confused….me too.

 

Kaine:  Trump said: “More nations should get nuclear weapons. Try to defend that.”

Pence: “Don’t put words in my mouth. Well, he never said that, Senator.”

 

Kaine: “He absolutely said it. Saudi Arabia, South Korea, Japan.”

 

Trump has, indeed, said that countries like South Korea, Japan and Saudi Arabia should have nuclear weapons because nuclear proliferation is inevitable. Trump has said that countries like Japan and South Korea would be “better off” if they were armed with nuclear weapons, in order to defend themselves from North Korea. And Trumps said he considers nuclear weapons a last resort, though he would not “rule anything out” regarding their use.

 

Pence: “Less than 10 cents on the dollar of the Clinton Foundation has gone to charitable causes.”

Kaine: “No, ninety percent.”

 

Kaine gets this right, as Pence repeated a false claim that is popular on the right. The Clinton Foundation does not dole out grants like a typical foundation, but instead directs the donations it raises directly for specified charitable activities. So simply only looking at the grants does not tell the whole story about the Foundation’s activities.

 

The American Institute of Philanthropy’s “Charity Watch” gives the Clinton Foundation an “A” rating for its efficiency (the top rating is A+). It says the Foundation spends 88% of its expenses on programs and 12 percent on overhead. It also says the Clinton Foundation spends just $2 to raise $100.

 

The Fact Checkers were pretty busy after the 90 minute event.

 

Copyright G.Ater 2016